04 Nov 2025
CDRE Antony Pisani: Good morning, and welcome to the Indo-Pacific Sea Power Conference 2025. We are honored to welcome Minister Paul Papalia, Minister for Emergency Services, Corrective Services, Defense Industries, Veterans, and Racing and Gaming in the Western Australian Government. To the Chief of Navy counterparts and senior national representatives from the 52 nations that are represented here today, to Mr. Tjambalabah Marangwilli AM, elder of the Madapa clan, and to our partners in defense industry. I would like to start by acknowledging the Eora people from the Gadigal, La Perouse, and the Cammeraygal as the traditional custodians of the land and waters on which we meet and sail, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples here today, and would like to pay respect to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who have contributed to the defense of Australia in times of peace and war. I'd like to thank Uncle Dean Kelly and Auntie Colleta for the wonderful welcoming and smoking ceremony conducted last night at the official reception in HMAS Canberra. Ladies and gentlemen, I now draw your attention to the screen for a short introductory video. Ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure to introduce and welcome the Chief of Navy Australia, Vice Admiral Mark Hammond.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: They say a picture beats a thousand words, I offer that a video beats a thousand pictures. Uh, it's a nice way to tee up today's, uh, conversation. The Chief of Navy counterparts, shipmates, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the 2025 Indo-Pacific Sea Power Conference. It's indeed a pleasure to welcome colleagues from state and federal governments, allied and partner navies, defense industry, business leaders from Australia and overseas, think tanks and academia, and media, and of course, the officers and sailors of our navies. Welcome to the largest ever Indo-Pacific Sea Power Conference and International Maritime Exhibition. I'd also like to welcome everyone who's watching online. This is the first time our conference has been live-streamed on Navy's YouTube channel. When I came into this role, I gave my media team the daunting task of putting the Navy in front of the nation every single day. Today is just one of those great opportunities to achieve that mission. There will be an excellent program this week of guest speakers and panel discussions. I'd like to start again, however, by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, the traditional custodians of the land that we meet on, and pay my respects to elders past and present. And, and my warm affection, respect, and regards to the Indigenous servicemen and women that have served our nation in war and peace for nearly 125 years. I'd also like to highlight that as we meet here today, there are 1,438 of our officers and sailors at sea in 21 Australian warships right now, while their loved ones are waiting for them at home. That is nearly half of our fleet in terms of platform numbers. They too have my deepest respect, and I extend that to the officers and sailors of all navies and other services represented here today. The theme of 2025's Indo-Pacific Sea Power Conference is Strength at Sea Equals Security and Prosperity at Home. Over the next three days, an exceptional lineup of guest panelists and speakers will discuss what this means in the context of Australia and the Indo-Pacific. But I want to kick off this year's conference by telling you what it means to me. The earliest seafaring civilizations realized that whoever controlled the sea would control trade, wealth, and security for the state. Naval forces in ancient Egypt, Phoenicia, and Greece were formed to protect merchant ships from pirates and from raids by rival city-states. The Athenian navy in the fifth century was born... was both a commercial shield and a means of power projection. They used strategic commerce raiding to damage the enemy's economy and to subdue their will to fight. The Byzantine Empire used naval fleets to escort trade convoys and to defend their commercial interests in the Mediterranean. And during the age of exploration, the protection of trade routes was a core business of the four European maritime empires of Spain, Portugal, England, and the Netherlands. Since the earliest days of sail, navies around the world have underwritten the wealth and prosperity of states because strength at sea equals security and prosperity at home. This is just as true for Australia now in the 21st century as it was for the ancient Egyptians in the 12th century BCE. Australia is an island. The sea surrounds us and it sustains us. It is our gateway to the world. It has written our past. It will continue to shape and define our future. Our identity is fundamentally connected to access to the sea. We are, and we always will be, a maritime nation. The traditional custodians of our lands have always known the importance of the sea to our island and to its people. Long before European settlement, First Nations Australians traded across the seas with our neighbors in the Indo-Pacific. The Yolngu people of Arnhem Land traded with Makassar seafarers from Sulawesi in the eastern parts of Indonesia. They exchanged cloth, tobacco, rice, knives, fish, and trephine. They practiced diplomacy long before it was given a title. Today, our national well-being, our economic prosperity is fundamentally dependent upon guaranteed access to the maritime commons. We are a maritime nation girt by three seas. Our connection to the world is through seabed cables that plug us into the global financial system and the internet of things, and the long maritime trade routes that connect us to the ports of origin and destinations across the world. These arteries and veins sustain the life of our national economy. On current figures, our economy or our GDP sits around 2.2 trillion Australian dollars per annum. Every year, maritime trade contributes about 650 billion dollars to our national economy, which accounts for around 29.5% of our GDP. One in every 20 Australian jobs is connected to maritime trade. Almost everything we rely on in our modern everyday lives comes to Australia by sea. Our cars, their parts, the fuel that runs them, electronic goods, the textiles that clothe us, the iPhones that connect us to everything important these days, they all come to us by sea. So too does the diesel that energizes the machinery used by our primary industries. In fact, if shipping stopped, it would only be weeks before our citizens started to feel the squeeze and significant impacts on their daily lives. Or as our friends in Singapore like to say, "No shipping, no shopping." Our connectivity to the global financial system and to family and friends across the world depends on the integrity of around 16 submarine cables that stretch across the seabed from continent to continent, and they plug in at various points along our coastline. This is what the sea means to Australia. The bottom line, we are a three-ocean island trading nation that depends on access to the sea for our economic survival, therefore, the prosperity and security of our citizens. When we talk about the importance of economic prosperity, we are talking about the lives and livelihoods of the Australian people, the people that we serve. The reality we face is that you do not need to invade Australia to defeat Australia. While maritime trade routes and seabed cables are our lifelines, they are also our greatest vulnerabilities. The loss of either would be an existential threat to our island and to our people. It's also important to remember that while we are an island, we're not alone. We're a member of the Indo-Pacific community. Like many of the nations who have joined us here this week, we share maritime borders with the Pacific and Indian Oceans, the first and third largest oceans in the world. The Pacific Ocean covers around 165 million square kilometers, covers more than 30% of the Earth's total surface, and it contains 46% of the Earth's free water. Interestingly, the Pacific Ocean is larger than all of Earth's land masses combined. I was reminded last week of a, uh, of a saying in the maritime community, "Land was created to give ships somewhere to rest." It has... The Pacific Ocean has maritime borders with more than 50 countries, many of which are remote archipelagos with thousands of islands that can only be accessed by sea. Consequently, shipping is responsible for 90% of imports and exports in this region. Shipping in the Pacific Ocean is essential to both human and economic viability, and these things directly impact regional security and stability. Seabed cables are the other essential lifeline keeping isolated communities connected. While fishing in this region accounts for 60% of the world's global catch, another vital source of income for people living across the Pacific. Of strategic significance, the Pacific Ocean has maritime borders with four countries in the world's top 10 economies. To the northwest is the Indian Ocean. This ocean covers 20% o- of the Earth's ocean surface. It has maritime borders with 38 coastal states that are home to around 35% of the world's population. One-third of the world's bulk cargo and two-thirds of the world's oil shipments transit through the Indian Ocean. It too has a network of subsea cables. Australia's economic reliance on the Indian Ocean cannot be overstated. Our key exports like iron ore, coal, LNG, and agricultural products all travel via Indian Ocean trading routes, which also provide us with vital access to oil and gas imports from the Middle East. I grew up hearing a saying that Australia rode to economic prosperity on the sheep's back. Last time I checked, sheep don't swim very far. Their wool certainly doesn't float for very long. And like iron and gold, the only way it can get to the international markets is by sea. I offer that this country has and will continue to sail to economic prosperity on the ship's deck. The India, Indo-Pacific region is of vital strategic importance, not just to Australia and the coastal states of the Indo-Pacific, but also to the world. The destabilization of this region would have global impacts. Two pillars have upheld the relative peace and security experienced across our region since the end of the Second World War, enabling our states and our citizens to prosper. The first is the international legal system and the rules, norms, and conventions that grant all free states open access to the sea for trade and the rights to prosper from their exclusive economic zone. The second is the will of states across our region to adhere to international law and to work together to maintain the peace that enables all of our citizens to prosper. These pillars have paved the way for the modern thriving Indo-Pacific that we know today. We must not allow these pillars to fall. However, the rules, norms, and conventions that grant us all access to the sea are being openly challenged and, in some cases, disregarded entirely. The oceans of the Indo-Pacific are now more contested than they have been since the end of the Pacific Campaign in World War II. Territorial disputes across the South China Sea serves as potential flashpoints for con- conflict in the region, despite the existence of an international rules-based system and a tribunal that can, that can provide judgment on these things. Incidents of aggression at sea between maritime forces of nation states have been occurring with more frequency. Submarine cables have been deliberately damaged, and the slightest miscalculation could turn competition into conflict with no warning at all. Our near region is also home to the biggest mol- military modernization in 80 years, with some states rapidly up- uplifting the size and lethality of their naval fleets at an unprecedented pace, some without any clear transparency or a clear statement of their intention. And it's this lack of transparency that increases strategic tension, anxiety in the region, and the risk of escalation. Challenges to the rules-based global order, coupled with the accelerated growth of naval power without transparency have resulted in trust deficits and great sea power competition in our region, with an increasing, increasing risk of military escalation. This is the strategic environment of the Indo-Pacific today. As history would attest, conflict in the maritime domain is not congruent with access to the sea for trade or safe shipping. Insurance companies prefer not to under- underwrite cargo ships traveling through war zones. So when access to the sea is an existential matter, as it is, as I hope you'll agree for Australia, and you can no longer assume unchallenged access to the sea, you must take measures to assure it. And it's our naval force principally that provides that assurance. In order to safeguard our nation's security and prosperity at home, we must be strong at sea. We must therefore optimize every second, every cent, and every person to ensure our navies are prepared to defend that which underpins our national economies and the security and prosperity of our citizens. Naval power must be a priority. So the Royal Australian Navy right now is currently undergoing a period of great transformation in response to the changes in our region, conducting an unprecedented and transparent uplift to the size and lethality of our fleet. This transformation is underpinned by the largest investment in naval capability in our nation's recent history, allocated under the 2024 National Defense Strategy and its Integrated Investment Program. This investment will deliver 11 new upgraded Mogami class general-purpose frigates at an accelerated rate, with the first three built in Japan and the remaining eight vessels to be built in Australia by Australian industry. It will also deliver six Australian-built Hunter class frigates, which will be one of the most silent and lethal submarine hunting surface combatants ever built. Construction of the first ship by BAE Systems Australia is well underway at the Osborne Naval Shipyard- Yard in South Australia. Investment will also deliver six Arafura-class offshore patrol vessels, the first of which was commissioned into service in June this year. And if you'd like to go and take a look, she's now berthed at the Australian Maritime Museum outboard of the old Deering-class destroyer, HMAS Vampire. This is her first visit to the east coast since commissioning earlier this year. All six ships designed and built in Australia by Australians using Australian steel. Investment also delivers 12 more Seahawk Romeo helicopters, a capability already operated by our Fleet Air Arm and our aviation teams at sea. And these additional aircraft will force multiply the submarine hunting capabilities of the Royal Australian Navy and the Royal Australian Air Force. Working with our partners through the AUKUS partnership, this historic investment will also deliver sovereign nuclear-powered, conventionally-armed submarine capability for Australia for the first time in our history. And I just had the pleasure of bumping into two ARAF officers who arrived back to Australian shores last week in USS Vermont, which is now conducting a maintenance activity being run by Australia over in Western Australia. In short, we are well on track under the op- optimal pathway. Many of our submariners have now passed through the US Navy's nuclear propulsion sources and are growing their professional mastery on board Virginia-class submarines. In fact, every US Navy nuclear submarine operating out of Pearl Harbor by the end of this year will have Australian submariners on board. Eventually, AUKUS-class submarines will be built here in Australia by Australian industry. And we just saw the announcement today with Pacific Marine Batteries, or PMB, about their involvement in the supply chain for the AUKUS submarine build. That too will be a historic milestone for our navy and for our sovereign industry. And because we were observing Halloween last week, it would be remiss of me not to mention the acquisition and the opening of the Ghost Shark extra large AUVs for the Royal Australian Navy. We opened the factory on Halloween last Friday, uh, and as you heard, uh, the minister talk, uh, this morning, that capability has been developed and delivered at speed. Uh, and it is not a concept. It will be very much alive in the waters of Australia. A lot of you, uh, have, have been coming here for a long time and you're very familiar with the natural predators that exist in Australia, the number of different critters and stuff that can kill you. Well, there's another one swimming in the waters of Australia from next year. And these autonomous submarines will significantly enhance the agility and as- asymmetric capabilities of our underwater warfare force. They will be teamed with our crewed platforms delivering our future hybrid fleet. And last year, with the support of our shipmates in the US Navy, in particular, under AUKUS Pillar Two, we introduced not one but three new missiles into service, the Standard Missile 6, the Naval Strike Missile, and the Tomahawk Land Attack Cruise Missile, all greatly enhanced the lethality, and more importantly, the survivability of our surface combatants in high-end warfare, while al- also making us more interoperable and interchangeable with our allies. But it's not just our people at sea that will experience the benefits of this historic investment in maritime capability. This investment will also significantly uplift our sovereign defense industry, a vital enabler of national security. Through the 2024 National Naval Shipbuilding and Sustainment Plan, for the first time, our industry partners will be bolstered by the confidence that comes through having continuous naval shipbuilding and sustainment. This enables companies across the defense enterprise to invest in the infrastructure and workforce necessary to deliver our future navy long after the first tranche is delivered. And while all of this goes on, on any given day, around half of our current fleet is at sea conducting maritime operations in the service of our nation. Over the fir- past 12 months, our people have spent a collective 347,000 days at sea patrolling our vital sea lines of communication, asserting our freedom of navigation rights under international law, securing our sovereignty throughout a very large exclusive economic zone, which is the third-largest in the world, and protecting Australia's maritime borders. This year, our officers and sailors have missed tens of thousands of family birthdays. It's a sacrifice they make because they understand the importance of the mission. They are operating alongside our allies and partners and with other agencies, including the Australian Border Force, the Australian Federal Police, and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade as our saltwater diplomats. They're ensuring we have a presence everywhere that matters because presence is a crucial component of deterrence, and they are performing the role of saltwater diplomats in floating Australian embassies, flying the Australian flag, and strengthening diplomatic and military relationships in ports across our region, just as my colleagues from around the world, my friends, uh, gathered here today are doing so on a daily basis. As everyone in this room will know, continuous operations require the continuous maintenance of our seagoing platforms to ensure that they remain safe to operate and ready for all contingencies. This is the contribution that our national naval shipbuilding and sustainment enterprise makes. It is vital work, and the people who support us to keep our ships at sea form an essential component of our national security infrastructure. And it would be remiss if I didn't highlight that right now every single one of our patrol boats is fully mission capable and fully mission ready. We have consistently fielded five of the seven Anzac-class frigates at sea this year and will continue to do so. And arguably, the availability and readiness of the Royal Australian Navy has never been this good. But never before outside of a period of declared war have we asked our navy people and our sovereign defense industries to do so much in such compressed time frames. We are asking them to build new ships and capabilities and to sustain current ones at an unprecedented rate while we concurrently operate our navy at a very high tempo. It's a big ask. But Australian industry has proven that before that when our national security is at stake, they are up to the task. And that is the beauty of this, this, uh, partnership with hand, uh, and defense industry this week. Because our access to the sea for trade is an existential matter for a nation. And arguably the stakes couldn't be higher. The indis- the indisputable fact is that it's too late to prepare adequately when conflict is already knocking on your door. You must absolutely do everything humanly and legally possible right now to make sure we are primed and ready for the worst should deterrents fail. We must grow the size and lethality of our navy at the pace of change in the region. This is our contract with the people of Australia. We do not buy into a strategy of hope. We buy into a strategy of preparedness and denial. Our focus is strength at sea because strength at sea equals security and prosperity at home. Ladies and gentlemen, I look forward to exploring these concepts and the challenges of our time, throughout the next three days. And I can't wait to get to Sea Power Conference 2025 underway. Thank you very much.
CDRE Antony Pisani: Ladies and gentlemen, Vice Admiral Hammond will now be joined on stage by one of Australia's eminent military and strategic scholars, and the recently appointed Hassett Chair of Military History at the Australian War College, Professor Peter Deane. A decision between Vice Admiral Hammond and Professor Deane will set the scene and provide the context for the remainder of the conference and the content and focus of the panels. Professor, welcome to Indo-Pacific 2025, and I invite you to ...
Professor Peter Dean: Thank you very much, and good morning, everyone. It's a, it's a real pleasure to be here with the, the Chief of Navy. Um, we're gonna take the opportunity this morning to have a, a bit of a chat and ex- extrapolate some of the themes out of the Chief's, um, speech. And I just thought I might start sort of with a bit of reflection, Mark, if that's okay. So, it's been two years, obviously, since our last meeting here for the Sea Power Conference. That's a pretty impressive list you've put up there on the board. But I want to try and pin you down, um, is there a real standout achievement over the last two years? If you look out at, you know, your officers and sailors out here and, and our international friends and partners and allies, can you pick one thing out that say, you're most... as Chief of Navy, I'm most proud of?
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Just one?
Professor Peter Dean: Should we give, should we give him more than one? We can probably give him a couple.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Look, I have to say our people, and it comes down to the demonstration of professionalism and resilience in the context of service right now, where, as I highlighted, the op tempo is high. The expectations of governments you've all heard today are pretty high. There's an acceleration context to everything that we're doing to, to optimizing the availability of the fleet, the lethality of the fleet in being, to accelerating delivery of the future fleet. All of that is only achievable with professional, committed, resilient sailors and officers. Um, and I, I think the one thing that stands out in terms of a metric in that context is the separation rate. In navies of four-year low, the voluntary separation rate in our navy is 4%. Overall, it's about six and a half when you include medical separations and retirements for age, et cetera. A 4% separation rate, I think most civilian employers would absolutely leap at that. So, for us to be so busy, yet our people to be so committed, that's probably the most rewarding thing.
Professor Peter Dean: So, with achievements come challenges. I'm gonna throw the same thing back to you the other way. What's the sort of top one or two challenges that navies really had to, had to really focus on and really bed down and, and really grapple with to get the achievements that you outlined there in your speech?
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: That's a really good question. The, um, because with that operating environment comes a lot of frustration. There's, there's a sensation that there's not enough time. There's not enough money. There aren't enough people. Uh, and we've come out of an environment where we used to spend a lot of time talking to our sailors about work/life balance. So, how do you square the circle against the demands of the mission, the expectations of our government and the Australian people, and make sure that what we're doing is sustainable? So, I think that's probably been one of the biggest challenges to overcome. Uh, and for me, the answer is, is it comes down to leadership, right? The leadership of my senior leadership team, the deck plate leadership, um, at sea. Um, uh, where's Stephanie? Over there. Stephanie, Sailor of the Year, um, thank you again for your service. It's the leadership of people like Stephanie across the fleet that are connected to the mission, that the sense of purpose for our nation, um, that makes it easier. But that's probably been the, the initial challenge is how do you pivot from a navy that talks more about-Um, that work/life balance is a retention issue to, "Hey, look. Uh, I know you'd like to be, uh, completing an online degree right now but, uh, I need you to actually focus on the work. Come get the ship at sea. I need ships at sea as quickly as possible."
Professor Peter Dean: Ca- can I actually ask you a bit of an extension o- on that? The, the balance between the current force and the future force, I mean, what you outlined in your speech is a really ambitious list of capabilities over the next, you know, few years and decade that are coming on board, but also, a very high operational tempo that's being demanded by, you know, the ADF and by the government to get out there into the region. What- what's it like? Wha- how do you... How are you managing that balance between what, what navy we want to become and what navy we are to delivering effects today, and that sort of thing? I suppose that balance between current and future force elements of your job.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Yeah. Thanks, Peter. It's... Uh, again, it comes down to leadership and I'm lucky to have... Um, well, we've, we've spent a lot of time building a construct over the last few years where the fleet commander in Sydney is responsible for delivering today's capability, um, for force generation to, to deliver trained lethal assets to the theater commander and chief of joint operations for employment across the region. Uh, and a lot of the, um, in-stride upgrades such as the missile integration happens inside Fleet Command, right? Uh, but it's enabled and governed by Navy headquarters. So we've got this division of labor which enables us to, to, to optimize the fleet using, um, governance, enablement, and oversight from Naval headquarters in Canberra, and the delivery arms of the waterfront, principally through industry and the fleet commander. And then we've got a separate organization that kind of straddles both, uh, both to, to an extent. But under Rear Admiral Stephen Hughes, head of Navy capability, that's where the strongest focus is on the future, the future capability, the future fleet piece. Um, and then it's all governed through the Navy Capability Committee, which is obviously the fleet commander, head of Navy capability, and the steward of our resources, Rear Admiral Matt Buckley. Um, and then the, the standards are, are kind of set from a seaworthiness pers- perspective and assured, uh, by Rear Rachel Dubin, head of Navy engineering, and her team. So for me, the, the secret is always, to, to doing something complex is taking a systems approach, designing and optimizing the right system to deliver on the mission of the day. Uh, and I'm fortunate, I've got a great team that have optimized that system, um, to meet the challenges set for us by government. It seems to be going... Where's the wood? There. Here we go. It seems to be going pretty well. Um, but if, uh, if my leadership team are looking a bit tired, that's why.
Professor Peter Dean: Um, I want to cast your mind forward a little bit. You know, that, that's a big list of capabilities you've got aboard, um, you know, from Hunter-class frigates to Mogami, Storkas, submarines. Um, can you give us anything of what you, sort of expect from NDS-26 for Navy? I mean, I mean, like battle cruises were once, you know, popular in Australia. Like, maybe we should throw out some extra ideas. You're already building submarines and frigates and destroyers. Why, why not have a battle cruiser or two? Or is it... Are we gonna look forward to something like that? Is there other elements of the NDS we should be thinking about in the future for Navy?
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Well, I'll, I'll leave questions of battle cruises and golden fleet to Admiral Koller, perhaps. Uh, I think the US Navy is best placed to build the, the largest warships, uh, in the world. For us, I think, uh, NDS-26 will probably bring more of the same. Uh, I think 24 has very much focused on maritime capabilities. I expect 26 will continue to focus on teeming with uncrewed systems, so those scalable contributions, I think that would be, uh, a focus. I think IAMD, Integrated Air and Missile Defense, will, will get another touch. Um, but broadly for our navy, I think the... the, the, um, the, the capability road map's largely been set by 2024. The expectation now is that we deliver on those programs, we deliver at speed alongside our allies and partners, and we maximize the size, lethality, and readiness of the Royal Australian Navy as quickly as we can.
Professor Peter Dean: So, I just want to pivot now to, to talk about a couple of things that you mentioned in your speech about the broader region. Um, and in particular, y- you made the reference to presence and persistence. Um, and of course within that concept of deterrence, um, and deterrence by denial in particular. So, can you give us your sense of how important do you think that naval presence that you were talking about in the region is in delivering on that strategy of deterrence by denial? What... Is this where the rubber hits the road? Wh- what do you see in, in from a deterrence effects liberal? Why is it so important to be out there and so present in the region so much?
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: I, I learned a long time ago that if you're not at the table, you're on the menu, all right? And so for me, uh, what, what does deterrence look like? Well, it begins with presence. You know, we, we did a bit of a role play at a, at an event a few weeks ago where I, I put my wallet on the table. I said, "Hey, Peter, if I'm not in the room, what are you doing?" He goes-
Professor Peter Dean: "I picked up the wallet."
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: So, to me that illustrates what deterrence looks like. It begins with being present. Um, when you're the custodian of the third largest exclusive economic zone, living on an island continent the size of Australia, which is the size of the continent of the United States, but you've only got a population of 27 million and only 10 surface combatants, it's impossible to be everywhere all the time. So we have to deliver scale- scalable naval forces as quickly as possible, which is part of the, the opportunity with, uh, with uncrewed systems. But we also have an opportunity to at least put the question mark out there as to where else is the Royal Australian Navy. That's what the under sea, uh, domain capabilities are particularly good at. Although we may not necessarily be able to be everywhere-There's a possibility that we could be where our mouth matters on any given day. And that's what investment in naval nuclear propulsion looks like for us in our current systems, in the Ghost Shark extra large a, um, uh, UAV capability, uh, and similarly with Blue Bottle, et cetera, in, in the up crew surface vessel program. So i- in that context, uh, deterrence begins with presence, uh, because generally people will behave differently when they know they're being watched.
Professor Peter Dean: Mm-hmm.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Uh, that seems to me to be a tenet of human behavior, uh, and that's very much integrated into our strategy .
Professor Peter Dean: Um, one of your other really strong themes out of the speech, and a couple times I've heard you speak recently, is strength at sea leads to security at home. And that the economic connectivity of Australia i- is basically linked through our relationship with, with the sea. I'm just gonna throw out a few statistics at you. So I just got back from Japan. Had a really nice week in Japan last week. Lot of really great engagement with our Japanese partners, and Mogami was at the top of everyone's conversation lists in the meetings I was in. But the other thing that came up persistently was that in Japan, 43% of their LNG and 66% of their coal comes from Australia. I was in Taiwan not so long ago. Kept coming up. 50% of their coal and 40% of their LNG comes from Australia. The Republic of Korea, for instance, is Australia's third-largest LNG export market. So basically, we are a hub for energy security around our region with some key allies and partners. All of that energy is going by sea. So in our deterrent posture, how important then is it to work with allies or partners? And take Japan and y- you mentioned our, our good friend, the United States before. How important that we do things not just our own presence in the region, but our presence with the United States, with Japan, and other allies and partners in, in relation to that deterrent outcome and effect you're looking for?
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Thank you, Peter. Um, frankly, the, the allies and partners piece is in our DNA. I- it always has been. Uh, you go back to World War I. Again, we had a very, very small fleet. It pretty much arrived in 1913, and we're at war in 1914. And as a commonwealth navy, our forces were dispatched to the European theater almost immediately. Uh, at the request of the Australian government, Japan sent a squadron of warships down here to Sydney Harbor to assure our sea lines of communication over 100 years ago. Today, as you rightly highlighted, we are economically connected on a daily basis. And the survival and well-being of our economies are interconnected. And those sea lines of communication don't just operate within 200 nautical miles of the coastline for those commentators who would like us to adopt a porcupine approach. Um, to cover those sea lines of communication, you need to be at their terminals at both ends. Um, and that's where allies and partners are, are particularly important. Together we have a responsibility to assure those sea lines of communication. And when the Royal Australian Navy sails alongside the JMSDF, we join a navy... so we've got seven frigates at the moment, three destroyers. Where's Akira? Akira's here. Hello, Akira. [speaks Japanese] my friend. Thank you so much for your partnership and your friendship and your leadership in the region. Uh, forgive me if I get the numbers wrong now. Uh, 45 destroyers, 22 frigates, 25 submarines thereabouts. That, that's a sizable force. We- how many warships have you got in the Seventh Fleet right now? About 40 warships in the Seventh Fleet. Um, and our Indian colleagues have about 60 warships under construction. When the Royal Australian Navy sails alongside our allies and partners, we sail as part of the largest maritime capability in the region. And we share the, the same, the same goals, the same desire for, for peace, stability, and economic prosperity for our children. So to me, allies and partners are part of our DNA. They're absolutely part of our national defense strategy, and they are core to Australia's national interest.
Professor Peter Dean: Uh, to break that down a little bit further, you mentioned Japan and Korea, some of our Northeast Asian partners. Obviously, our, our alliance partner, the United States, but one of the things that stood out for me probably since the last Sea Power Conference is the level of engagement we're actually doing with the Philippines and the Filipino navy. I mean, why, why is that so important? Why are we sort of doubling down on engagement on this with the Philippines in particular, and what can we kind of extract from that as a, as a reflection of why it's important more regionally?
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Well, thank you, Peter. Th- this is, this is a core issue for our nation that, that I think we've, we're obliged to, to explain in further detail. So I welcome the question. Um, a- and my Philippine, uh, counterpart, Jose, uh, has had to depart to return to the Philippines because of the national security situation in their exclusive economic zone. So for me, it, it begins with the sovereign rights of states within their exclusive economic zone. When we talk about the international rules-based order at sea, we talk about United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea, which ascribes to sovereign states, um, the rights to exploit natural resources in their exclusive economic zone. And not, not just the fish, but in future seabed resource. There are some seabed resource, uh, harvesting programs already underway in the world. Uh, and for Australia, with the third-largest exclusive economic zone, that's a significant source of national wealth today and for future generations. Our rights are derived-... from that rules-based order. And so are the rights of the Philippines in their exclusive economic zone. So, if the rights of coastal states in the region are eroded or disregarded in their exclusive economic zone, it absolutely engates- engages our national interest. And you heard the deputy prime minister talk about our commitment to the international rules-based order this morning. Uh, and that is very much the mission of our Navy, to sail alongside our allies and partners to reinforce the importance and legality of that international rules-based system so that future generations within our region around the world can continue to enjoy prosperity derived from their lawful exploitation of resources in their exclusive economic zone, something that has been uncontested since the UNCLOS was settled in the early 1980s. So that's why you will see us, you do see us, and you will continue to see us working with allies and partners, particularly in the Philippines. Uh, and HMAS Ballarat has only completed a, um, a- another maritime cooperative activity with allies and partners up there, uh, at end of last week.
Professor Peter Dean: So, I wanted to, uh, a little bit ... So, I threw some statistics at you before about national dependencies, about energy security, about the importance of the region, but if we bring it back home, and I want to talk a little bit about industry here, and we have later this afternoon, there's some panels we've got coming up with some of Australia's, um, business leaders. How well do you think, um, you know, industries and businesses in Australia ... So, one in 20 jobs, in your speech, are connected directly to the sea. You know, the level of Australian exports and, you know, which come in and out by sea, how well do you think industries in Australia really understand their dependency on access to the sea? And do you think, is there a sort of gap between what you are saying as Chief of Navy and what the Navy's sort of trying to lay out as a, as a national conversation and, and Australian industry itself? Do they get that level of dependency? Are they sort of on the, the same page or is there a bit of a gap there we need to continue to work on?
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: I think it's a bit of a patchwork quilt. I think the industry exhibitors here get it. But I think the interdependency or the access to the sea on a national level is probably not as well understood as it arguably should be. Because it's very, uh, uh, it's probably impossible to walk into an Australian shop and not have an overseas nexus that involves connection to the sea, whether it's even EFTPOS, the connection to the international financial system depend upon those seabed cables. You know, it's like only about 1% of telecommunications uses satellites, and they're the things that keep getting knocked out, um, just when you least, uh, least expect it. So, I think there's more work to do. Um, and, and for me, that's, that's an important part of the Sea Power conference and INDOPAC 25. It's an opportunity to, to highlight that connected nature and to remind people that we've been able to ignore this since World War II because everyone's behaved by the rules. Now, we've been able to assume access to the sea, which is why our navy is, um, pro- probably smaller than what it should be for this, for the strategic environment. And because we've been able to assume ongoing access, unfettered access, that's great. We haven't needed strong maritime forces to, to assure that access to the sea. So, in that context, um, I, I think certainly for, certainly for my leadership team and our successors, there is an obligation to the Australian people to continue to explain and to engage in this national conversation so that people understand why we're spending so much national treasure investing in what is effectively our economic insurance policy.
Professor Peter Dean: So, I, I want to stick on the industrial link and drill a little bit further down. I've got a bit of a theme going here about economics. Um, and I want to talk and link that back to AUKUS. So, you mentioned in your speech, USS Vermont's in town. Um, I'm gonna steal this line about there's no submarine coming out of Pearl Harbor, Virginia Class submarine without an Australian on board. Now, that's a pretty cool statistic actually, um, in, in all my AUKUS work that I do. But how important is, you know, the sustainment piece that we're doing there on, on USS Vermont and the, and the role of sort of navy and industry there in Western Australia? I mean, it's sort of, you know, I saw a bit of a, you know, the defense put out a bit of a press release about that and one, two people picked it up, and it's like, "Oh yeah, it's almost becoming routine." But when I drilled into the details, it's actually quite a significant visit, this one. There wasn’t a US Navy tender ship along with it. They're doing ... So, how significant really is Vermont's visit and what does that mean about that industrial navy link happening there in Western Australia around AUKUS?
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: It's historic. Ultimately, we sent hundreds of Australians to Pearl Harbor to learn from United States Navy's industry partners how to, how to sustain naval nuclear propulsion, nuclear submarines. Now, we brought a whole bunch of those people back to Australia to conduct this maintenance activity on USS Vermont, and we've got commander of the submarine Force Pacific here, Chris Cavanaugh. Um, it's not just historic for us, it's historic for them. We, we are building an ecosystem here that can assure the availability, readiness and lethality of nuclear powered submarines from Australia. That's to the benefit of the United States Navy, it's to the be- the benefit of the Australian Navy, and it will enable us to build that, that level of competency to, um, to assume custody of a nuclear submarine in a few years time. So, this is, um, it's as much an activity aimed at, um, demonstrating capability and improving our confidence.... demonstrating capability, improving the US Navy's confidence in order to collectively provide assurance to our governments that the navy, the Royal Australian Navy will be ready to become custodians of naval nuclear propulsion. Uh, and in the first case, uh, through the transfer of a Virginia-class submarine. And I must say, again, if you, if you see a couple of guys, um, a couple of tall guys walking around with US Navy dolphins on, um, go and ask them how it's going, 'cause I, I had that quick chat. Uh, and they're extraordinarily proud of even our most junior sailors who are going into that training pipeline. And, and Chris, I, I, I'm told that every one of your captains in Pearl Harbor wants Australians on board. Is that right? It's true, don't you? They're only human.
Professor Peter Dean: De- diversity of accents that are beyond the 50 states, right, is what you're looking for. Um, uh, I, I wanna just tease you out a little bit more 'cause we've got a bit of time left on, on AUKUS. I mean, it's been an interesting week. I was in Japan, as I said last week. I'm, I'm sure the president came to Japan just because I, I happened to be there. Um, but the new Japanese government's been formed, uh, you know, exceptionally strong support in public opinion polls for the new prime minister in Japan, uh, early on. And what was fascinating there, if you look at the details of the new coalition agreement in Japan, one of the things it talks about in national security is they're gonna investigate next generation propulsion for submarines. Now there was a debate when I was there, what does that mean? Does that mean nuclear propulsion or AIP or something else? And then the president goes to Korea and starts talking about, you know, potentially sharing reactor technology for Korean submarines. Um, so nuclear power and submarines are, are getting a bit of a run, at least, you know, in our region a fair bit at the moment. But I'm gonna put you really on the spot here and say, I'm gonna put you in an elevator, Mark, uh, with a bunch of Australians who look at you and say, "Why the hell are we buying nuclear-powered submarines?" What's your elevator pitch to a member of the Australian public about why they should be supporting the government's acquisition and maybe some help in a nuclear-powered submarine? I really put him on the spot for this one too. I didn't load him up on this at all.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: No, you didn't.
Professor Peter Dean: Living dangerously.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Look, my, my first obligation is to the safety and wellbeing of our people. And that's the first thing you learn as a submariner. Safety of the submarine and p- personnel, remain undetected, then achieve the aim, and you're working through that triarchy of, uh, of priorities. And when I look at the 2030s and beyond, and I look at trends, at the moment, everything above the surface of the ocean is completely transparent. If it floats and flies, it's detectable, it's targetable. Everything below the surface is really hard to see. Even when you know where it is, it's really hard to find it again. The ocean environment is the most dynamic environment on the planet. Changes in temperature, pressure, salinity, rainfall affects the environment, currents affect the environment, shipping affects the environment. It is the most unpredictable, uh, and challenging operating environment. And that will continue to be the case for some years to come. I've been hearing about the silver bullet that will ch- make the oceans transparent since I was about 18 years old. Uh, and it still hasn't arrived, and I'm a lot older than 18 now. So, I think the seizing that first obligation of safety of our personnel, when I look at the future generation of submariners, I want them to disconnect from that surface environment to the greatest extent possible. Sticking something the size of a 44-gallon drum out of the water to charge our batteries, uh, as Wes Zall helming, Zall and I have been doing, uh, for, for our careers in deep electric submarines, it's really hard to hide that today. It's just gonna get harder and harder as, as, uh, um, artificial intelligence and, and new algorithms are applied to existing technologies. So, um, if, if I wanna maximize the survivability and safety of our people, disconnecting them from periscope depth is the first objective. And if you've also got to transit areas that are like 4,500 miles across and you wanna be able to do it with speed, the only option is naval nuclear propulsion. So, if you're a Baltic state and your sea lines of communication, uh, are fairly close to you, you don't need long range submarines. Germany doesn't have a lot of long range submarines, they have a lot of submarines, but very good submarines. But they have a different operating environment. If my mission was to just to protect Bass Strait, we could probably do it with Ghost Shark and some deep electric submarines. But it's not, it's the third largest exclusive economic zone. Our interests begin thousands of miles away from home, and we've gotta be able to be present or, uh, a credible expectation exists that we could be present in order to, to match that deterrent capa- um, the deterrent strategy that we've committed ourselves to. So, it's absolutely in Australia's interest to invest in the most capable and most lethal and most survivable undersea capability we can afford.
Professor Peter Dean: Yeah, and, and it's interesting to note, isn't it, you talk about the, the people who sort of argue that, you know, the transparency of underwater will happen, yet every navy in our region is looking to expand their submarine force.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Right.
Professor Peter Dean: And the, you know, investment particularly from, you know, um, from all different types of states with different interests is fundamentally is still about man-crewed submarines enabled by these extra uncrewed systems.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Peter, if I could make a comment on that. I don't know what this means, but it can't mean anything good. That right now, the chiefs of navy of the United States Navy, Russia, China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, Vietnam, the Netherlands, Norway, are all submariners.I think that is unprecedented and I think it speaks to government focus on under the sea warfare as being a determining factor for years to come.
Professor Peter Dean: It's got nothing to do, I'm sure, with it being a cult? Right. Now, um, we're running out of time. I do have a- a thing here on my note, "Whatever you do, don't mention the mighty South Sydney Rabbitohs and why they have so great," so I'm not gonna ask you that.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Did Mr. Conroy ask you?
Professor Peter Dean: Yeah. He ha- he had a dig this morning, so for those South Sydney supporters, um, in the room, we had to... I have to have a little dig back at the, uh, the minister. Um-
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: I will pass your comment to the prime minister who is a Rabbitohs supporter.
Professor Peter Dean: Yes. Uh, when I do bump into him every now and again, I do... It- it's the first thing I like to remind him of. Um, thank you so much for your time this morning. I- I hope the audience got as much out of that as I did. Um, it's a great insight to where Navy's at and where Navy's going. Uh, I think the critical importance of naval and maritime power, um, for Australia's security not- not only now, but well into the future. So thank you very much, Chief.
Vice Admiral Mark Hammond: Thank you, Peter. And thanks to my friends and colleagues in the room, in particular, View Partnerships. We could not achieve Navy's mission without our allies and partners, uh, and our industry colleagues. So thank you very, very much.
CDRE Antony Pisani: Ladies and gentlemen, in addition to, uh, thanking Vice-Admiral Hammond, I'd just like to extend a- a thank you to Professor Peter Dean, uh, for not only his engaging questions, but for the thought-provoking discussion that it created, and that'll guide the proceeding panels and events. So please join me in thanking Professor Peter Dean. Uh, that concludes, uh, the first session of the Indo-Pacific Sea Power Conference. Um, we will now break for lunch and request that you're back here in the Pyrmont Theatre at 12:55 for the, uh, first formal panel, Australia to Sea: The Maritime, Economic and National Security Nexus. Thank you very much.